oh, pretty morning. good morning, it's monday, july 11th. welcome to "morning joe." 11th. with us on set we have the host of "politics nation" reverend al sharpton and also has a national action network and had a busy weekend but did watch soccer. >> i watched joe on twitter tell me what was going on on soccer. in between all the stuff i had. joe was my connection. >> that's nice. >> msnbc political analyst and school of public policy, former democratic congressman, herald ford jr. >> good morning. >> morning. man managing editor and co-host of "with all due respect" mark halperin. >> the circus returns with some good cameos. >> are we showing some of that this morning? >> i wouldn't know. >> let's regroup and make that

happen. >> speaking of cameos, really quickly. boy, wedding season. mike barnicle's son, colin barnacle, got married this weekend. >> lovely, lovely wedding. >> he tried to do that to me and broke my back. but mike barnicle and ann and was something. there is of course, phil griffin and tim russert and luke russert. senator kerry was there. and it was very, very nice break. i got to say, mike barnicle gave such a moving, moving talk. >> oh, it was beautiful. >> brought his seven children up and talked about how, you know, you have to let him go. you have to let them go. you raise kids to let them go and then at the end he goes, but, of course, as you know,

reverend, you never let them go. >> even though they let you go, you never let them go. >> i'm looking at ford. >> anyhow. >> congratulations, mike. >> but he should be back tomorrow, you would think. anyhow. to the news now, president obama has cut short his trip to the nato summit in europe and will travel to dallas to give remarks at an inner faith memorial. he will be joined by former president george w. bush for the service for the five police officers killed in thursday night's ambush.iy lily latest i attack, chris jansing, what do we know? >> on friday we were sitting on set together and we were only getting the first sense of what happened and what this man behind the ambush was thinking. over the weekend, the fbi was busy at the crime scene behind

me and they were just steps apart searching for evidence. here's some of what we learned. bombmaking materials and journals uncovered at micha johnson's home showed he was practice detonations. on the walls in the parking garage in the heart of dallas right behind me, they found these initials rb written in blood and police are still trying to figure out exactly what that means. while investigators have still not ruled out whether others were involved, they were very careful to say that the sophistication of the shooter's tactical approach is unusual for most criminal subjects. >> president was such a spontaneous decision to march and we had to leap frog intersections to make sure they didn't run over by vehicles. we had to scramble to block intersections, which did expose our officers to this attack. and this, this suspect took

advantage of that and, once he was in a high perch position, officers did not know where the shots were coming from and we are learning some of the positions of our deceased officers and they were in a funnel. it ended up being a fatal funnel there and then the suspect continued to move and shoot from different angles. really diagonally triangling our officers with his fatal fire. >> how he was laughing and mocking the officers during that standoff. he also confirmed that the shooter requested a black police negotiator as the night wore on. the chief also revealed that in the meet of that standoff immediately after his initial press briefing he was presented with a novel idea, using a robot and a pound of c4 explosives to end. an option he ultimately accepted. >> we negotiate would him for about two hours. he just lied to us, playing

games, laughing at us, singing, asking how many did he get and that he wanted to kill some more and that there were bombs there. there was no progress on the negotiation. >> well, police believe these incidents in louisiana expedited his plans to attack police. something that they very clearly planned for some time. part of the streets will open today and that will close some businesses and county offices will reopen. i was saying, earlier, joe and mika, it will be anything but business as usual. >> we'll check with you throughout the morning. >> thank you, chris. on these type issues for the president, he can never win. you know, after minneapolis and baton rouge, a lot of people that didn't think he went strong enough. you read editorials the day after the dallas shootings, some

some sudly and not so subtly blaming the president on the police officers deaths. he has, some some time, tried to strike the right tone. tried to explain how police officers, unfortunately, are often thrown into positions like social workers in the worst parts of america. and they're not trained for that task and it's not fair that we give them that task and, i mean, my point is, no matter what the president says, he gets attacked from both sides. >> that's because there's at least five to ten kind of issues roving around this from race to policing to carry laws, even. which we'll get to at some point in one of these stories. the justice system, reverend al, is not just black and white. you know, tension between black and white. there's a lot of now problems with our system that are now broken.

>> absolutely. i think part of what we wrestled with all weekend. i've been on countless conference calls with other heads of national civil rights groups and with people that are on the ground. >> families themselves. >> the families themselves. raised sterling was on "politics nation" yesterday. part of it is that many of the protesters come from our organizations, but many of them are white. you know, we say black lives matter. but that's more of a statement than just an organized group like nacp and many of them are white and many have different feelings and we need to sympathize, emps tathize. everyone wants to make this so easily fitting in the same category. we've got to deal with it as a

much more complex and a much more, in my opinion, it's a lot more serious, but it's a lot more complicated. >> that's such a great point. the "wall street" editorial page said after the dallas shootings, it's not that simple. the freddie gray case. three of the six police officers were black. the judge that acquitted the cops that started the protest was a black judge. it is not a black and white issue. it is, that plays a large role in it. >> it's a race issue, but not black and white. >> it's a race issue. but i believe in minneapolis, the police officer was hispanic. >> hispanic and asian. >> so, it is a race issue and a policing and black issue, but it is not simply a white and black issue any more. >> exactly. see, one of the things and herald knows this, one of the

things that civil rights groups, at one level you have a lot of our members and myself and others protesting and calling for justice, but another if you're working with the families who want justice. they are not necessarily agreeable to a lot of the things that some of the extremes on both sides want to do. so, when you have some responsibility, you have to deal with that. i only raised that to say that the president has a responsibility to the citizens and law enforcement. he's the commander in chief. so, imagine when he got off the plane last night what he has to deal with. it's easy for us to sit on cable tv or editorial movement and beat down on what he should have done. he's got to deal with the fact that i've got to make all of this work somehow and the complexities of how it works. >> if you go too aggressively on one side, you're going to offend the other side. and the case -- >> some systemic problems here in terms of police detaining the

justice systems and economics. protests, speaking of what the president had to deal with. protests continued in various cities over police-involved shooting deaths. last night in memphis, black lives matter demonstrators shutting down an overpass. at the same time in baton rouge, 48 arrests so far as police clashed with protesters dawning gas masks. on saturday, 100 people were taken into custody furious over the death of alton sterling whose shooting was captured on video. among the detained, one of the central figures in black lives matter movement. freed with others on sunday morning. he tweeted one day ago and just last night, we saw police abuse their power and intentionally provoke protesters in order to create and exploit conflict. police also say one of their own had teeth knocked down when someone from the crowd threw

asomething. and in st. paul, minnesota, on saturday, protesters swarmed on to i-94, not far from where castile was killed. more than 100 people arrested as police deployed smoke and tear gas. 21 officers were injured after demonstrators threw rocks, bottles, fireworks and bricks. one officer had a concrete block dropped on his head and suffered a broken vertbray. >> i want you to touch this badge and see the significant impact of a rock like this that gets thrown from a bridge and hits one of our officers with enough force to crack helmets and bend a piece of solid steel like this. it's really a disgrace. protesters last night turn under tacr into criminals and i'm disgusted by the acts of some, not all,

but some. >> herald ford, that's exactly what the president said. any violence against law enforcement officers is unacceptable. and it is a crime. and they will be persecuted to the full extent of the law. >> as they should be. i want to salute my hometown, memphis, last night. no arrests. there's no violence. in fact, the chief of police in memphis marched with the protesters across the bridge and shutting down the bridge and questionable on a legal act and yet the police recognize the outrage and hopefully a bigger conversation will happen there. the thing that struck me was an african-american women who was shot in dallas. i believe shot in the leg and she recovered and being released from the hospital. >> mother of four. >> thee thashe thanked the poli officers. rightly so have talked about training and a lack there of training and how you can have more training for how you deal with communities and situations

as some of these incidents have shown. but i want to salute the training there in dallas. i think around the country when police officers are confronted. law enforcement officers are confront would the kind of challenge they face there where every day citizens are threatened. these officers ran into the fold there. i saw a few politicians make stupid comments over the weekend about that matter. but the bigger issue is, police officers, when they do should be saluted and be thanked. the president tried his hardest to do that and did a good job at that. i was particularly moved with all the things about race and reunited but listen to that woman thank those officers on behalf of her family was a striking contrast with am of the things we've seen. >> while police officers were being shot down, this police officer ran after -- >> a lot ran into gunfire. >> she covered her 15-year-old son and an officer helped her. >> you mentioned the president. let's look at the president speaking in europe over the

weekend on the simmering racial climate in america right now. >> whenever those of us who are concerned about fairness in the criminal justice system attack police officers you are doing a disservice to the cause. any violence directed at police officers is a reprehensible crime and needs to be prosecuted. in a movement like black lives matter, there's always going to be some folks who say things that are stupid or imprudent or overgeneralized or harsh. and i don't think you can hold well meaning activists who are doing the right thing and peacefully protesting

responsible for everything that is uttered at a protest site. >> as painful as this week has been, i firmly believe that america is not as divided as some have suggested. americans of all races and all backgrounds are rightly outraged by the inexcusable attacks on police, whether it's in dallas or any place else. >> so, mark, the political reaction. we hear from the president, hillary clinton and donald trump laying low. >> donald trump had a pretty good instagram. got a lot of views. really well said. >> it showed an awful lot of restraint in a presidential-style statement that came out on friday morning, i think surprised an awful lot of people. but talk about the reaction. >> heartbreaking time for the

country athat requires leadership that's both emotional and intellectual. you know, you look what paul ryan said at the end of last week, hillary clinton, donald trump. 80% or more of what they all said is the same. but there now needs some programmatic change. that's where the president's head is at. he's a rational guy. he wants policies now to try to address this. in the short term i think tomorrow will be an extraordinary day for the country. president bush, president obama will appear together in dallas. that's the emotional part. >> symbolic. >> really, this is where thea politics kick in. >> wall street journal again on saturday had a front page article saying in a time of crisis, americans are showing unity. we did have in the midst of this bleakness, some positive signs. they quoted people from the far left and the far right all

sounding the same. we've got to get past the divisions. we have to move forward. >> i agree that there were some dramatic signs of unity. even newt gingrich made a statement, newt and i had to work together on education with the president bringing us together. but he's saying that it is something different to be black in america. for newt gingrich to say that. >> normal white people can't imagine what it is like to be black in america. >> but i think we are spending a lot of time and i think largely the key point, reacting to the problem rather than saying how we're going to solve the problem. because we're going to have a week, tomorrow will be a big day with the former president bush and president obama in dallas. but then we're going to have the funerals, baton rouge and others in different, we're going to have the funerals of the poli

policemen. so, this is going on this week. how are we going to go on dealing with the core problem of racial disparities and the core problem of how police feel secure without having a buildup of the militarization of police. i think we have to get to the hard work otherwise we'll be back here again. we had these conversations after ferguson and staten island and we just can't keep going from episode to episode. >> i want you to look at this. donald trump responded to the president's comments yesterday. president obama thinks the nation is not as divided as people thinks. trump called for the restoration of law and order on friday morning. later, released a video statement in which he said racial divisions have gotten worse. >> a brutal attack on our police force is an attack on our country and an attack on our families. every american has the right to live in safety and peace.

the deaths of alton sterling in louisiana and philando castile make clear how much work we have to do to make every american feel that their safety is protected. too many americans are living in terrible poverty and violence. >> reverend al, not something you would have expected from donald trump, even a week ago. >> absolutely wouldn't have expected it from him. but i also would expect somebody who wants to be president would tell me, therefore, what are you going to do about it? if i'm going to be president, this is how i would solve it. notice what he says, i think the bar is so low with him when he's not saying something crazy, crazy, we say, oh, it was just crazy, not double crazy because notice what he said. he said the skikilling of casti and sterling. most americans dealing with safety of their lives. what are you saying the deaths of castile and sterling was?

it doesn't -- >> well, from his statement that he gave on friday and that, he first talked about the police officers and then he talked about those two killings. and said all americans should feel safe. and after that he was talking about too many americans living in poverty. too many americans fearing for their lives. >> what i'm saying is, what are you saying that you're going to do to secure for all americans to feel safe? how do you deal with that? >> i think that's a question we need to ask the president, hillary clinton and everybody equally because right now it seems to me we don't have an answer. >> i have to say this to you, joe. when i was a kid. when i was 13 in '68 and we had a lot of social unrest. i mean much more. you're not talking about demonstrating with rierateots a vietnam war protests. it led to richard nixon being elected.

if the republicans had a more sober candidate, i would be very afraid about the elections as a democrat. because all of this could skew toward a law and order type of candidate. i think donald trump, though, just doesn't fit the bill. >> maybe his vice presidential pick will. >> it actually could and, quite possibly will, if there is unrest ithe streets over the next several months. that actually would help most likely, a "law and order candidate" as you say. i do want to go back, though, to what was said before earlier over here. so, many of these decisions are going to be made on a state level and a local level when we get to the policing of this, right? >> i mean, the presidential candidates can talk about it. but this is governors and mayors and as reverend sharpton said you can't just keep having funerals and everything that

happened last week has symbolic meaning, but also systemic causes. people need to start dealing with them, and again, presidents just can't. >> i'm just curious. i want to follow up. i actually agree with the president and not donald trump on the issue of the divisions in this country. because in 1968, you talked about '68, things were divided. we were far less divided as a country than i think we are now. do you agree with the president or with donald trump? the president said -- >> i agree more with the president. >> the president said we're not divided. donald trump said he leaves in a dream land. i don't think we're that divided. i think there are some serious issues here. >> i think the president is right. i think, clearly -- >> you look at the number of protesters to reverend -- >> that are white. >> the number of protesters that happen to not be black who are offended at the notion of

unfairness and inequality and people being treated in a discriminatory way. donald trump, he should get, indeed, he believes he should give us tangible examples of what he's sakg to. but to suggest the country elected an african-american president and a police chief the second most powerful thing i heard is when the chief said, you know, on any given day police officers are really looked at poorly and treated poorly by the community. i hope tomorrow he was thinking the day after thutae attacks an that we could have an exception to that day. just the players, the figures in this unfolding drama, the racial composition suggests strongly that mr. trump is just wrong. he may be trying some political advantage. >> even like kent state. i remember after kent state hearing more than a few older people saying, well, they should have done that a long time ago. people don't -- shooting

students, killing, you know, four innocent college students. protesting. yet, we were so divided as a country from people saying, they should have done that a long time ago. there is not division that there were. >> what would make him say that? >> say what? >> be so opposed to publicly and emphatically. >> because i think a lot of americans watch the news and look at their twitter feed and look at social media and they see, they see something that really exaggerates our divisions. >> boiling hate. >> i can tell you, i said it before, mika and i over the past eight, nine years have given, gone around speeches, colleges, other functions, charities. and we are stunned whether we're the upper west side. whether we're in demopoulos, alabama, people want so much.

they want washington to work together, and they want their children, and the jobs to come back to america. >> can't believe what's happening in washington. >> hard to tell the difference between a republican audience, democrat audience. this could be the week we get vice presidential pick. plus, we'll talk to a retired hostage negotiators who was working with police on how to avoid fatal shooting tragedies. he said it's all about the training. we'll be right back. >> they stayed there with us and i saw another officer -- saw another officer get shot. right in front of me. i'm sorry. i like the bride more than the groom.

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with the republican national convention just a week away donald trump's decision on a

vice presidential running mate could come any day now. robert costa reports that trump did not hold any meetings this weekend with vice presidential prospects. instead meeting with staff and spending time with family. he returns to the campaign trail today in virginia with new jersey governor chris christie at his side who was being formally vetted by the trump campaign. and tomorrow, trump campaigns in yi yi indiana with governor mike pence who was also formally under considerati consideration. pence has a 95% chance of being the pick. do you think that's true, mike halp halperin? >> that seems a little high. >> a dark horsemichael flin. he's a red shirt democrat and raised eyebrows when he asked where he stood on the issue of abortion. >> abortion, i think it's, i

think for women, these are difficult issues. but i think women have to be able to choose what they, you know, that sort of a right of choice. but i think that's a difficult, legal decision and i think that women are so important in that decisionmaking process. >> while some republican delegates are looking to make the presidential choice themself, buzz feed was the first to report to make it easier for the convention. mark helperin is mike pence ahead in this thing? is the general ahead? >> he's a nice guy. >> we didn't even hear newt this weekend. >> impossible for any of the five us to say who it is. i don't think donald trump knows. he's in the phase where he recognizes there seem like a lot of good choices and then you start going one by one and it's

like, everybody has flaws. a lot of pressure. he understands. he's asking people about it all the time. he knows that a good pick really helps his chance of winning. >> who is his best pick? >> the people under consideration, i think mike pence might actually be the best pick. everybody has down sides, i can tell you all the reason not to pick mike pence. to me from the beginning, he needs someone who the country will look at and say that is the responsible choice. step in if something happens to you. >> his resume is very similar to john kasich from his time in the house and now the governor, but midwestern state. >> can i show a scene from the circus. >> sure. >> that's such a racy show. the circus caught up with donald trump. >> can't believe you'll show this on tv. >> mr. trump i haven't seen you in a while. how is everything going? >> is today given what the fbi director said, will it go down

as a historic day in this campaign? >> i think a historic day for the country. i think it's very sad and a lot of people have to have their records expungeed because what happened is unbelievable tago through the dialogue of boom, boom, all the things you didn't want and then to come out with that conclusion, i thought it was a very sad day and in many respects, a very sad day for the country. in fact, when you look at the fbi comes out and bill clinton meets at the plane. you know, you look at how it all worked out. you have the plane, you have the fbi and then a couple hours later, you have a speech in north carolina. >> you look at hillary clinton. you're a student of your opposition. does she look like somebody who is going to win or running scared? >> i don't think about it, mark. i just do what i do. >> that is what he does. vp pick, what do you think, herald? >> far be it for me to give him advice but somebody in the

military might be more ehelpful. mike pence, a good good. someone who has military experience. >> how he would deal with isis and i think he needs someone to fill that void. >> i think we should forget those who pick pence that you'll mobilize a lot of the lgbt communities and progressives like me because of the indiana law with the restaurants and all. where they were the state that really took it on. so, you've got that. but i think that it's really bebeginning to come to mr. trump that these are about serious decisions. he will sit down and say, this is serious business. this is not just me doing what i do. but i'mery interested and i'll start raising that given this climate that we're in we don't not only know what kind of vice

president he and mrs. clinton -- >> well, the clintons have already said loretta lynch before the indictment. >> please, al. >> saying that they said that. >> they did. >> i said what type, i'm not talking about who because i think that is a very critical role at this point. >> critical role. >> who is going to be the next attorney general. >> i would like to see mr. trump's idea on who the attorney general and what the justice department. we're in the middle of a serious crisis. >> do you think it would be chris christie? >> i don't know. i want to know that. then we should compare his record for what he did as governor of jersey in that area. >> who dwo you think is going t be the vice presidential pick. my concern about mike pence, you never know how someone will act on the national stage. get throughout and say some pretty dumb things even if you're a smart guy. same thing with the general. i would warn everybody away from the general only because you look at what happened with wesley clark the first couple of

days. >> i was in that race. >> you want somebody that has been on the big stage, that excels on the big stage and, really, you've got newt rigingrh who is all over the place and the guy that is one in the best campaigners in the fall and the guy that finished marco rubio's campaign single handedly and that's chris christie. low approval ratings in new jersey. >> think you need a foreign policy. >> you get all that stuff but i will tell you chris christie is a guy you can put out there and he's not going to embarrass you and chances are he is going to embarrass the other side. if hillary clinton were to pick elizabeth warren and then elizabeth warren and chris christie would be two able number twos going after each other. >> that is just all wishful thinking. >> mark halperin? >> i think picking someone who was not been in politics is a

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the sports world what reverend al was not watching

yesterday. the end of euro 2016 championship. portugal was really the underdogs anyway. but it looked a lot rougher for them against the host country after one of the star players renaldo. the most arrogant guy calling himself god collides with an opponent in the eighth minute. able to play after the injury but collapsed, again, after the 17th minute collapsing to the ground in tears. renaldo returned and immediately started cheering for france. he wouldn't remain in the game much longer and he was stretchered off the field in the 25th minute. the score 0-0 at the time and everybody assumed that powerful france team was going to win. despite dominating much of the game, france just couldn't find the back of the net. greensman, arguably the player the tournament misses. a header and an easy opportunity to put france on the scoreboard. that was as close as it would

get and the deadlock was broken and extra time, a dare with the game winner in the 109th minute. a goal that should have never been allowed to go. portugal first ever major tournament victory ever. they beat the french at home 1-0 to claim the european championship. a sad way for this tournament in france to end unless, of course, you're a portugal fan. i have to say, i want to tip my hat. the french law enforcement authorities, this is a tournament that was spread out over a month. i don't think anybody expected this to go off as seemlessly as it did. without violence or acts of terror. they did a pretty extraordinary job other, of course, when the english hooligans got into fight with russians. that was about the height of the problem. >> all right, having said that. up next, when the data shows when i comes to deadly encounters with police, plus, why america is flirting dangerously with the 1960s.

a new piece says the nation's political leadership is behind the curve of current events. "morning joe" is coming right back. but there's loyalty to your country... and the things donald trump says... about immigrants and women... veterans... i mean, how can we put up with that? how can republican members of congress support that? if he's our standard-bearer, what the heck happened to our standards? the dccc is responsible for the content of this advertising. ♪ ♪

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what's in your wallet? with us now the chair of the department of african-american studies of princeton university. his new book "democracy in black" how race still enslaves the american soul. making trouble this weekend. just don't read your twitter feed unless you get over to verify. >> will you please tell your students that. >> we never knew that. why didn't any blacks around the table know about verify? >> herald, did you know about it? for whites only. it said verified. you know actually how i learned it, how i learned it is i would be responding to these people and i go, hey, don't respond to an egg with three followers,

they're hater. look at verify. push verify and all the haters are filtered out. >> did you know i had a really rough weekend? >> i know you did. that's why i was looking at your twitter feed. don't answer -- >> i don't even follow because curse out the rally because you're responding to some guy that nobody -- >> there is such a disconnect between that and the people that come up to you in airports and come up to us in airports and thank you for all the work you did. still, a rough weekend. obviously, you have police officers hurting, you have so many members of the black community hurting and you've got the president caught in the middle here trying to figure out how to balance these two competing problems. >> and all the different -- >> how is the president doing? >> well, i mean, you guys have described how difficult it is. from my vantage point and i

might disagree with some folks, i would really love for the president to not, i mean, he has to do it, but to not try to balance and strike this tone of equivalency, which has kind of marked the way he's talked about race for much of his time in office. i think what's really clear is that african-american communities are in pain. they are grieving. many are mourning. and oftentimes when the president speaks of the fact that black people are mourning and grieving as opposed to speaking directly to black people. sometimes that's why i think he said in dallas said i'm a supporter of mr. president. i'm a supporter of you, mr. president. i want you to go to baton rouge and i want you to go to minneapolis and you said if he does that, he'll get it from the other side. you have to say, what does this reveal about our nation?

>> what does it reveal to our nation? >> that goes to the complexity of what we're saying. i think that clearly the president has to explain what is going on and deal with the racism and address the black community. and there's not equivalence, it's two different problems and i think he's got to address the problem of racial disparity and do something about it and how you can take law enforcement. but the other factor that many of us talked about all weekend is when you talk about him going into baton rouge. is that going to help or hurt the justice department case? because are they saying he's putting his thumb on the scales now on the prosecution? >> he did it with hillary six months ago. why can't he go to baton rouge? >> that's my point. that's the families' concerns and others. easy to talk. when you're talking to the family and the family's attorney is saying, wait a minute.

i want to make sure that our case is the same. then you've got to also factor that in. >> wouldn't you think it would be wonderful if the president called all these grieving families to the white house? >> he had trayvon's family there and the family from ferguson and the family from all these -- a lot of the critics have met with the president himself. >> i think when the president does, i tnk you said it earlier, rev, you have to come with the policy changes and the prescription. i think it helps to deal with the concerns on both sides about whether or not the president may be tipping the scale to the other side that some leaders across and certain communities have said he's doing nuther at making matters worse. if you come with a set of ideas, proposals, i'll work this plan here over the next few months with us and ensure more dollars for training. whether it's to encourage conversation between the inner

faith and larger community. one of the compelling pictures i was watching the inner faith community here in dallas and come together and urge calm and urge people to come together. you have to come with some ideas. >> that's where i agree with eddie because eddie has laid out some ideas. >> the reverend was talking earlier about how this, it's oversimplifies it to say this is a white cop on black motorists or citizen issue and we're talking about baltimore, three of the six cops were black. it was a black judge that acquitted some of the people in the freddie gray case. do we need to look at this as a more complicated matter, that this is policing and racism as opposed to just like this cartoon character of white cops chasing around black teenagers to kill. >> it's not the case. >> i completely agree with reverend on this issue. race is not just simply.

the problem of race and racism is not just simply a problem about black people and their relationship with white people. a much more complicated reality. i tell my students all the time, i'm going to get in trouble, i'm sure. you don't need white people for racism to exist. white people aren't necessary for white supremacy to continue to affect your life chances. to understand that requires us to understand, right, what is distinctive about dallas and los angeles and what's distinctive about oakland and what's distinctive about miami. where race is functioning and all these -- >> can the three black cops in baltimore be racist towards freddie gray? >> you have african-americans driving around in trenton carrying with them a host of assumptions about the people who would have it, that environment. >> where the racism comes in, you have a case now in brooklyn

that others are dealing with a black cop. where the racism comes in is where you have black cops that will do, what they know they wouldn't do to whites. that's the problem we have, even with some of the cops. >> not as intentional, but as a cultural practice of inequality. something that we all breathe. >> we need to go to break, but one of the things i did pick up while you were fighting everybody on twitter, with your fascinating talk about the different roads that you go down in your town. >> right. >> and how that is even impacted by race. okay, still ahead this morning. we'll take a closer look at the technology that ended the sniper spree in dallas we all on the set here were like -- wait, who blew up who? did the guy blow up? >> were they in imminent danger right there? was the guy cornered?

i don't understand why they blew this guy up. >> he just shot a police officer. >> i understand that. the question is, were they in danger? i understood he was like cornered. >> it is a robot with arms. >> there's a stun grenade. >> i'm not second -- >> no second guessing. we're just curious. >> you're saying blow him up. >> the question is, do you put an officer in danger? >> no, i don't want to put an officer in danger. >> he said we tried and tried and tried and made a decision at that moment. >> but the chief said there was no progress in negotiating with him and laughing and talk about the next thing he was going to do. >> do you go in there with an arm, a robot arm with a bomb or tear gas. >> a stun grenade. >> you don't go in with a cinnabon. >> that's a false contrast. a cinnabon and a bomb. what we want to do is talk about this within the context of due

process and talk about this in the context of the rights of citizens and a range of things. we need to be very, very careful. >> guys, we have to go to break. i see a robot coming out with a cinnabon just for you. we'll be right back. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,

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we have an update on twitter. racism on twitter. >> we saw it. >> we found it is not just white/black racism, we find that eddie does not have verified on his twitter.

>> why not? >> well, because he's black. but reverend sharpton does. so, it's just like -- >> ivy league chairman, i'm grassroots. got to the grassroots first. >> you know what it's called. it's called updating your app. >> thank you. we'll be right back. >> the wisdom of the grassroots. you both have a perfect driving record. perfect. no tickets, no accidents... that is until one of you clips a food truck ruining your perfect record. yeah. now you would think your insurance company

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worked with republicans and democrats to fix it. creating the children's health insurance program, so that every child gets the health care that child deserves to have. now eight million kids are covered. that's the kind of leader she is. and the kind of president she'll be. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, july 11th. with us we have host of msnbc

"politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. >> verified. >> very verified. >> former democratic congressman herald ford jr. >> we go to colin barnacle's wedding. >> it was so much fun. >> i have to say, come on, i asked him how his weekend was and he goes to derek's wedding. jeter. >> congratulations to my friend. >> hey, congratulations to the barnacle family. >> derek jeter's wedding. >> i go to colin barnacle's wedding. >> two elitists. >> oh, my goodness. so much fun. >> and afford to get them in the white house, the least i could do is get dinner, right? >> i don't know what jeter's wedding was like, but barnacle's wedding, colin, pulled off a beautiful miracle. it was really nice. >> gorgeous wedding. >> loved it. >> very nice.

okay. also with us, look at this. you have to let that play, alex. at the very end there is a kiss. >> when you say also with us is like change. know to the next set. the guy who's not verified. >> also with us the chair eddie gloude jr. and managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. >> i'm verified. >> can you show the picture of joe teaching us? >> i do have that. we are going to be tweeting this with a very special caption. >> teachable moment. >> teachable moment. >> i'm actually the tech dork right here. >> really bridging the divide. >> now what you want to do is -- >> this is what happens on the break here at "morning joe. ". >> this is a nightmare. >> you look perplexed. are you sure you are a professor? >> chairman. >> don't say that too loudly.

>> perhaps. >> you better not. >> i'm coming to class and going to check it out. president obama cut short his trip to the nato summit in europe and will travel to dallas tomorrow to give remarks at an inner faith memorial. he will be joined by vice president joe biden and george w. bush for a service for the five police officers killed in thursday night's ambush. over the weekend, the fbi combed the dallas crime scene searching for evidence. police now say bombmaking materials and journals uncovered at micah johnson's home showed he had been practicing detonations and enough material to do far more damage. on the walls of the parking deck in the heart of dallas, where his standoff ended, they found the initials rb written in blood. police don't yet know what that means. and while investigators have still not ruled out whether others were involved, they were careful to note the sophistication of his tactical

approach. unusual for most criminal suspects. they also confirmed he requested a black police negotiator as the night wore on. meanwhile, protests continued in various cities following the police-involved shooting deaths. last night in memphis black live matters demonstrators shut down an overpass tying up traffic much of the night. at the same time in baton rouge, 48 arrests so far as police crashed with protesters dawning gas masks. on saturday 0 people there were taken into custody, furious over the death of alton sterling whose shooting was captured on video. among the detained, one of the central figures in the black lives matter movement freed with others on sunday morning. he tweeted, "one day ago and just last night we saw the police abuse and their power intentionally provoke to create

and exploit conflict." but police also say one of their own had teeth knocked out when someone from the crowd threw something. else where in san antonio, texas, gunfire hit police headquarters and in st. paul, minnesota, protesters swarmed on to i-94, not far from where castile was killed. more than 100 people arrested as police deployed smoke and tear gas. 21 officers from multiple agencies were injured after demonstrators threw rocks, fireworks and bricks. one officer had a concrete block dropped on his head and suffered a broken vertebrae. >> i want you to touch this badge and see the significant impact of a rock like this that gets thrown from a bridge and hits one of our officers with enough force to crack helmets and bend a piece of solid steel like this. it's really a disgrace. and protesters last night turned

into criminals. i'm absolutely disgusted by the acts of some, not all, but some. >> eddie, what were your reflections on the protests this weekend? should they have gone for it after dallas or waited a couple days or did they need to move forward? >> i have been thinking about this and i'm using the example of philando castie's mother. she was asked about dal as couple days ago, yesterday or the day before yesterday. she said i don't know what's happening in dallas. i haven't slept in 48 hours. i want justice. a sense that what she was being asked at that moment, right, to broaden, prbroaden the scope of her empathy and sympathy. >> i just lost my son. >> there are a whole host of people that are part of the black lives matter protest. let's be clear, it's not one unified organization, it consists of a range of people who are still grappling with the

reality of these folks. >> so, talk about o'reilly on friday night and others said that black lives matter was a hate group. >> well, first of all, not one group. i think that there are three young ladies that started hashtag and who i honor that are being able to come with a slogan that captured the feeling that civil rights groups to grassroot groups, all of us use. and some who have organized under that. but not like you're talking about a group. so, i think that they're just grabbing something and trying to demonize it and don't understand the width and breath of a movement that all of us -- >> or like you said, it's not just one monolithic organization. just start up with a hashtag. >> but i think what they've done in the large part is help to

really bring the issue forward that many of us have been fighting. but i also think and following up with what eddie said, a lot of people in action, they were the group i lead called me over the weekend. baton rouge and been involved from the beginning and said we want to continue marching, not in disrespect to dallas, but because we want to make it clear that we are not part of what happened in dallas in terms of shooting police. and in some ways to delay would have given the message that we had some responsibility. >> and connected to this crazy shot. >> can we go to -- >> here's rudy giuliani. >> he weighed in on the black lives matter movement in the connection to black lives matter. >> you said the black lives matter movement put a target on the back of police officers when members of the african-american community see videos like they have this week, they feel like there is a target on young,

black men. explain your response about how they put a target on police officers. how that can match up when people see these videos. >> when they talk about killing police officers. >> but they don't. >> they sure do. they sing rap songs about killing officers and they talk about killing police officers and they yell it out at their rallies and the police officers -- >> mr. mayor. >> please, please, let me finish. when you say black lives matter, that's inherently racist. >> well, i think -- >> black lives matter and white lives matter, asian lives matter. hispanic lives matter. that's anti-american and it's racist. of course black lives matter and they matter greatly. but when you focus in on 1% of less than 1% of the murder that's going on in america and you make it a national thing and all of you in the media make it much bigger than the black kid

who's getting killed in chicago every 14 hours, you create a disproportion. >> herald ford. what's your reaction? >> i find it difficult at a moment when the country is un e uniting and trying to come up with serious and real answers to listen to someone who languishes in and pedals hate and violence and kind of silliness. some of the points he raised about the crime issues and communities across the country are real. but to suggest that when young black men call police, call law enforcement to be of help and be of assistance and there is concern that the law enforcement may not show up or show up and treat them unfairly is something you have to address. we have evidence, piece of evidence after piece of evidence police officers engaging in unlawful conduct against black men. so, look, rudy giuliani has his own political agenda he is promoting. >> i don't understand what he said, honestly. >> i think he should talk to newt gingrich.

newt gingrich who i disagree with on most stuff said living in america black is much different. so, i don't even want to get into the rudy giuliani argument. i did a piece on him in "daily news." what we have to deal with is to say that a rap song or somebody at a rally represents a broader movement is on his face. let's look at the statement about saying the slogan, black lives matter is racist. then are we saying that national organization for women is anti-man or united -- people raise all the time the concerns of people who have been neglected or treated differently. and i think there is nothing anti-anybody else about trying to make sure you are no longer victimized by being treated and marginalized in an anti-youth kind of way. >> this angers me for a number

of reasons, first, was he's engaging in bad faith. the center for policing equity put out a major study that was covered in "new york times" showing no correlation between black on black crime and police violence. no correlation. the idea, in the midst of the death of sterling and the midst of the death of castile to bring up the issue of crime in chicago, as if it has any bearing on those actions is an act of bad faith. that's the first thing. the second thing, right, blue lives matter, i suppose, isn't narrow. but black lives matter is. that makes no sense to me. so, part of what we have to deal with is this. in the midst of this particular conversation, this goes to the question of whether or not we're more divided than we are. there are people who hold positions, assumptions about who black people are and those assumptions are driving policy. are driving us, are driving

perceptions and driving judgments about what motivates these actions. you read my twitter feed this weekend. every time someone responds to the death of a black person by the hands of the police by saying or appealing to black-on-black crime or appealing to the criminalty of "criminality of black communitie. they don't care about the death of those black people right in front of them. at that point, i'm angry. i'm angry with that. it is very difficult for them, for me then to be civil. >> police disconnect. >> so, i'm so happy i didn't see rudy giuliani. >> it's a distraction is what it is. it's a distraction, yes. yes. black on black crime is a problem. yes. chicago is a problem. yes. these are problems that we talk about all the time. >> they're all related.

>> problems with law enforcement officers and the black community as an example of what's going on in chicago. >> some of the things we're talking about here, a small example. you talked about memphis and the protesters there and the chief of police in memphis joined the protesters to cross the bridge there. there was probably some unlawful conduct in terms of blocking and shutting down the bridge but the police and the protesters behaved in a way consistent with what you talked about, reverend, making the case and protesters are not a part of or support that will kill anyone and i salute my hometown and i hope we don't get distracted by the silliness of rudy giuliani. >> let's go to dallas. white house correspondent chris jansing. chris, what do we know more now about the victims of last week's shootings of the fallen officers? >> we are getting new details, we have over the weekend, about the men and women who put themselves in harm's way to protect these protesters here in dallas. this morning we learned that a 13th police officer was shot and another, a 14th, was injured.

let's go to jacob rascon who has more on those killed and still recovering. >> on the outskirts of dallas at the southwest police division, there are no words. only tears of the 12 officers hurt or killed. half of them were assigned here. lauren aarons gretchen rocha and jorge were injured. they were a team. >> they knew each other well and that's what makes it sting all the more because they're close, closeness to each other. >> reporter: major thomas castro was more than just their leader, he was also their friend. >> they were just loved by everybody they touched. not just here on the department, but the outcry and the outpour from the citizens. >> reporter: there are no strangers here. this is their community. >> thank you, sweetheart. >> reporter: this is their

officers. >> just pretty heartbreaking that these three lives were taken from here. >> you saw that picture of patrick. he got a little more than a scratch while he was serving multiple tours of duty in the middle east. he left the navy, actually, to take care of his daughter who is now 2 years old. i sat down with his mom and sister at their home yesterday and we talked about just how much patrick left behind. what can you even say to a 2-year-old? >> there is nothing you can say because he's already looking for him and has been asking for him. >> yes, she's asking for him where's dada? >> she sees his face and she knows that is who her dad is. there's no way to tell her that he's not coming home. >> also new this morning, we learned the two other officers who were injured, both, both of them are el centro college police officers. corporal brian shaw was shot under his vest.

kept protecting people on the street and other police and didn't get treatment until hours later. he's going to need surgery, but he is recovering. officer john avitt received injuries to his legs. according to officials he tried to help save the live of transit officer brent thompson. but thompson died on the scene. just one more note because it brought it home so vividly for me when i finished the time i spent with the whole family, his sister said she had to go because she was picking up his uniform from the cleaners that he will wear for his funeral. back to you. >> thank you very much. shedding pounds. this chart of britain's currency on june 23rd. can you guess what happened then? we'll talk to a top british official trying to convince the world's biggest investors to

stick with sterling. first, republican convention without anyone from the bush family. nicole wallace joins us to talk about her conversation with jeb bush and a year that was supposed to be his for the taking. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. as we go to break in the midst of all the bad news out there, more of the happy moments. mike barnicle's son, colin. we got another one. i have an orc-o-gram for an "owen." that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪ thank you. seriously though, stacy went to a great school and she's really loyal. you should give her a shot. sanjay's a team player and uh...

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>> listen this is the act of one crazy, deranged individual. i am more concerned about how do we lower the tension, the fear. how many people of color do we have to see murdered before our eyes? one thing we haven't talked about is fear. police officers are supposed to be tough, but they're afraid. and you couple that with young, black kids who are afraid. if we can just find the one common thread that unites us both. >> that was part of mark mckinnon's sit down with former mayor of dallas ron kirk.

mark spent the weekend in dallas and the former adviser to president george w. bush and the co-creator and executive producer of "the circus" on showtime joins us now. also with us from kennebunkport, maine, former communication director for george w. bush nicole watts. she is set to speak exclusively today with jeb bush. the governor's first chance to explain why he's not voting for president in november. >> mark, you said one of the sadironies is it's not a hot bed of unrest. >> dallas has done so much, you know, with ron kirk when he was there, herald, you know him. one of the great leaders in america. really thoughtful particularly on these kind of issues. the dallas police force have, the whole community has done so much. when i went down there, i was struck by all the things i am saying. not protest of anger but vigils of hope. it's really sad this happened in

dallas, but as ron kirk said, you know, the interesting idea is that he focused on idea of fear, beginning fear. talking to ron, too. he's as successful a guy in america as i know and i had my own newt gingrich moment when i heard him talking about his girls in new york and how he fears for them. i was like, gee, even ron kirk is as successful as he is. >> when you say your newt gingrich moment. >> newt gingrich said, it took me a long time and a number of people talking to me through the years to get a sense of this. if you are a normal, white american, the truth is you don't understand being black in america and you instinctively underestimate the level of additional risk. i'm a victim of that, myself. >> nicole wallace, a level of normal whi a al people in amerie scared and they are fearful and they do not believe that leaders in washington are up to the task

of rising to the occasion and leading us through this. talk about how that impacts our politics and might impact who the 45th president of the united states is. >> i've been watching the show all morning and any time anyone mentions the fact that george w. bush and laura are going to attend some of the memorial services with president obama, i feel like it's this extraordinary thing. and that it is extraordinary is at the center of our problems. that it is extraordinary that even in a moment of unimaginable grief, we think it's something wildly unique for people to come together. that is part of why i think people are so hardened into their own corners. that is part of the solution. so, i think it adds an interesting layer to trump's vp selection, which is widely expected this week. does this change him? does this change how he runs? i noted a change in his comments over the weekend and i wonder if

he makes his vp pick in the context of this moment that you guys have been talking about all morning. >> you mention how trump can save the gop. he says this, mark mckinnon. recently mr. trump has been tacking to the right. his early promise to curtail tax breaks for hedge fund billionaires getting away with murder, seems to have been smudged over a tax plan that resembles mr. ryan's supply side blueprint. but he also presents himself as a negotiator and compromiser who will unlock the frozen gears of government the challenge for mr. trump will be convincing voters that he really does mean to improve conditions for working class and middle class americans, and just play to their grievances. if he does, and brings the party alonwith him, he could be a formidable foe to mrs. clinton.

but even if crushing defeat, he could be a kind of reverse goldwater, who shifts the party. >> talking about trade being more centrist on trade and being more centrist on medicare and some of these other social policies. >> well, i mean, certainly a lot of republicans who would like to see the party move more to the center and expand an appeal to middle class voters and republican voters need to do that. the republican convention, we can talk a lot about what's happening the last month or two and the trump campaign and the convention wipes that away. you have an opportunity to completely reframe the race. you get four days where you get to dominate the news. it's a big reset. it's a real opportunity. he can provide a vision for the future and what he believes the republican party should be. not a lot of clarity about that right now, but real opportunity. >> i think he needs to start with the tone he used on friday

in his statement and the tone that newt gingrich used, which shows republicans not talking like republicans have traditionally talked. after trayvon, after cleveland. after what happened -- >> compassionate conservatism. >> nicolle headline in "usa today" gender gap grows. hillary clinton had 24 percentage points among women. that is a record. according to the pew poll. and get this, millennial women that didn't like hillary, seven in ten supporting her now. >> you know, the demographic studies that you can do coming off the 2016 cycle will fill a shelf on book stores and in most college campuses. but, you know, i think this question of what do people grow for in this moment is the ultimate choice will hinder on. is it her? she sort of has thearket

cornered on predictability and instability. but he still has the market cornered on strength. if 2004 is any lesson, women, those swing voters are attracted to strength, if it doesn't feel risky. i agree with the assessment about what the convention can do for him. we'll talk to jeb bush who is not voting in the presidential contest, still a lot of republicans for whom he can't erase his past mistake with a brilliant four-day convention. i think there is still a lot of ups and downs and he has plenty of opportunities, more than she does in a lot of ways. >> i always said, though, in politics, herald ford, demographics is destiny. i've been saying it for 20 years. whether you're talk about medicare or who wins presidential elections. if you're down 24, 25, 26 points among women, if you have an 89% disapproval rating among hispanics and 96% disapproval rating among black americans, there aren't enough old white guys to get you elected president.

>> nothing more i can say, but, yes. i agree with you 100%. i don't know how you overcome those deficits. granted, we're still in july. i think sam's comments about how he positions, he being trump positions his message in the coming weeks and coming months. and to mark's point, the convention is, as we all know, a pivotal moment. if he's able to take full advantage of it, perhaps he's able to offset some of this. >> the vp. >> i don't see how you win if these numbers maintain themselves. >> we've been saying it for well over a month, mika, he needs to work and improve his numbers with women and hispanics or he doesn't win. >> nicole wallace, thank you so much. exclusive sit down with jeb bush airs tonight at 10:00 eastern on msnbc during a one-hour special. nicolle, we'll look forward to that. thank you so much for being on with us this morning from maine. still ahead this morning on

"morning joe." -- >> do you think donald trump has campaigned as a racial healer? >> i think he's trying to campaign as a racial hey healer. that is part of his message. if you watch what he said this week. talked about how devastating this was for dallas and we have to respect our law enforcement and pray for those who are killed and those who are injured and i think that is his intent. i trust him with his words. >> we're going to be talking about race and healing in america and whether there is a singular political american figure who can calm the streets of so many american cities.

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>> what has donald trump and his campaign done since the campaign started to make your lives harder? >> what's he done well? >> he gives us too much material sometimes. we have to folks and say, we're only going to swing at this now. >> i think occasionally when the teleprompter is in front of him, they have written the right things for him. but at almost every turn and this new hampshire is a perfect one. the second he deviates from the script, he creates a fresh set of problems for himself. >> yes, i think the number one problem we have is making sure that all these statements he

makes every day do not lull people into thinking that this guy can't possibly win. >> dangerous to underestimate the sheer force of donald trump's personality. >> we could be 20 points up. everything could change. >> sitting down put the brain trust behind the clinton campaign in brooklyn and last night's episode of "the circus." last week the fbi called hillary clinton extremely careless. for her handling of classified material and her private e-mail server while aersecretary of st. in interviews on friday, clinton admitted it was a mistake while suggesting the officials and employees that e-mailed with her were also complicit. >> i think there are about 300 people in the government, mostly in the state department, but in other high-positions in the government who i e-mailed over the course of four years. they, i believe, did not believe they were sending any material

that was classified. they were pursuing their responsibilities. i do not think they were careless. as i have said many times, i did not believe that i received or sent any material that was classified and, indeed, any of the documents that have been referred to i think were not marked or were marked inaccurately as has now been clarified. >> what was clarified was that there were 110 classified documents that were e-mailed. >> what was she doing there? was she throwing people under the bus who she forced to send e-mails to her public server? mark, what was she doing there? 's trying to move on. >> yeah, and saying they were complicit. >> where else could they e-mail her? >> she gave them no choice but to e-mail on her home brewed server. which, by the way, had less security, we learned, than if she had just gone with g-mail.

>> that's not good. >> one thing i didn't really agree with was this notion that why are lawyers looking at their classified e-mails? >> but they didn't have security clearance. >> yeah, so what. >> what do you mean so what? >> it's -- >> that's -- you have just proven why -- i can tell you this. >> very cavalier to say your lawyer can have access to classified information. >> her lawyers. if they don't have security clearance, they are not to see classified material. if i had a lawyer when i was on armed services committee and it had information, top secret information about al qaeda, i couldn't give that to a lawyer without any classified information or i would be like -- >> i'm just not concerned that her lawyers will turn around and talk to north korea. here's the thing i think the

problem. >> wait a second, if they don't have security clearance, it doesn't matter who they are. they can't have. >> you're being legal, i'm being practical. >> i'm following. what, 200 years maybe of classified documentation. you can't just say any lawyer can have top secret information. >> i'm just responding as a citizen. i'm not so concerned about her lawyer saying classified material. legal precedent or whatever. >> talk about classified material. >> here's t interesting moment in the hearing which do think is problematic. comey was so good through the whole thing and the only question he was unprepared for, when asked when they were looking that clinton foundation. kind of a moment where he just didn't say it's not our practice not to speak, i can't answer that. kind of a moment like, that's interesting. >> you're supposed to say that, as an investigation or not. she was cavalier about two

things. cavalier about the handling of information and about the freedom of information act. so regard with her lawyers they did two things, again, that show her attitude about how cavalier she was. she left people without classified information and, two, they claim that the lawyer husband read all 60,000 e-mails to carefully make sure that all work-related e-mails were turned over. then it was determined, when she talked to the fbi that they didn't read them. they looked at headers and they didn't spend the time, as the fbi did, reading every one. therefore she did not make certain. even at that late date that the government, that the public had access to every government-related e-mail. >> what's the issue with the clinton foundation? why do you think that is intere interesting. >> interesting they were looking. >> why would they be looking at the clinton foundation. >> what would be the reason why? >> i don't know. it made it appear like there is something in the clinton

foundation or somehow intersects with this in a way that has gotten their interest. >> what republicans would say people gave money to the foundation and then got special -- all right, coming up next, by the way, what a week to come back with the circus. >> it's a circus out there. there were peaceful protests in memphis. >> yeah, shutting down a major interstate overpass. still to come, a tactic law enforcement and whether it really works. we're joined by a long-time nypd expert to talk about what could cut crime and build up communities. "morning joe" continues. >> works now that herald ford moved away. be right back. ho doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin.

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policing in this country, this is not sustainable to keep these officers encouraged. these officers risk their lives for $40,000 a year. $40,000 a year. we're not perfect. there's cops that don't need to be cops and i've been the first to say we need to separate employment with those types of cops. but the 98%, 99% of the cops come to do this job for 40 grand and risking their lives get this criticism. it's not right and it's not sustainable. >> wow. joining us now, retired detective and hostage negotiator with the new york city police department vincent is also the founder and ceo of perimeter agency. also with us from massachusetts, president of the center for policing equity and professor at john j. college. philip. very good to have you both on board. vincent, can we just pair down to one case and look at, for example, the killing of castile.

that cop was highly recognized and trained and hispanic, by the way. so many reasons -- >> graduate would honors. >> to look at the video and you have a snap judgment that the training is off or policing is wrong, is there something to look at here in just that case alone in terms of training. when you have a carry law, it's very confusing out there. it's got to be scary for cops. >> it comes down to voluntary compliance. so, we understand he was stop d stopped, as he fits the description of a man attempted robbery three days prior and when he, you have to obey the orders of the police officer os. it's a very stressful situation. we could talk about fight or flight. we could talk about fear. they all factor into these situations. we understand he may have a gun. he's saying he has a gun.

and his further movements alarmed the police officer. i can't comment on why he pulled the trigger. i can comment on voluntary, obey officer's command. >> wasn't he -- do we have -- >> this is why i'm an advocate for body cameras. >> right. because you got the sense in watching that video that he corroborated what the woman who was taping the whole thing said. that he was asked to get his license. >> yes. >> if you're asked to get your license out of your pockt and you have a gun in your pocket, that is very confusing. >> very difficult situation. >> philip, it seems to me if all cops, as we've been saying here since ferguson. if all cops had body cams, we actually would have seen more than just one side of this. we would have actually seen the entire situation, him approaching the car. how critical is it for us to

just force and i think that's something the federal government can do. they can force all police officers and law enforcement agents to wear body cams. >> it's true that we would know more about this particular incident if we had a body camera in the situation. i wish that was the case. federal government would force law enforcement to do sets of things that could be standardized. we could have standardized training across law enforcement and that's not something within the jurisdiction within federal law enforcement. what they can do. if you don't do the things we're asking you to do, we're going to suspend some money. >> like they did, for instance, in education. >> that's exactly right. this is an issue we're going to have to solve state by state. it's a thing that i wish we were hearing in the election and i wish we were hearing more as we cover all of this. this is the state's issue that we're going to end up having to solve by states coming together and figuring out public private partnerships because as good as

an idea as body cameras can be and they are incredibly expensive and lead to civil rights issues. there is a child in the back of that car and we make that video available, yeah, sure we can blur that child's face but very easy for that to leak out to facebook. the mother streamed it out on facebook live. so, it's not as straight forward we put cameras on everybody and everybody starts behaving and when they don't we are aware of it and we can do it immediately. if that's a home invasion or a response to a domestic, you're walking into somebody's house with a camera on and the things you see there is not always appropriate for law enforcement to have pictures of. >> having the body cams help with training and help officers react. one thing i'm impress would vince about is the ideas around crisis intervention training for officers as they deal with everyday situations, including the tragedies we saw in baton rouge and minneapolis or st. paul and other places around the

country. i think we call it the memphis model where i'm proud to be from memphis for a lot of reasons. give ossenus a sense of how tha could be incorporated. answers and solutions and watching the remarks from rudy giuliani. >> be the person that you're confronting because this goes no where. this is stubborn. we have to come underneath the person. we have to -- bring ourselves to use empathy to explain exactly what we're accomplishing. if we're stopping someone who is

wanted for a robbery, for example. explain why we're stopping them for a robbery. show them a photo of the wanted, the wanted photo of the subject. tell them, excuse me, sir, you happen to fit the description. may i ask for your identification? when the person feels they are respected, they are inclined to cooperate. if it was a case of mistaken identity, you will understand why you're being detained. bipolar psychological disorder. we take them down and we bipola.

it is demeanor. it is respect. if you take the time to open up to the people they will comply. >> you have that such ratioitus. >> i would love to ask you this video. we have the video that shows he was very respectful. what sort of assumptions -- i mean i just read the policing equity study. so how might we think about the assumptions about black people in how it is informing people in a split second? >> it is seductive to speculate on the mind of an individual officer in these cases because they are so difficult to watch and so profoundly effecting. i want to talk about the science

and what we know about the science. what we know is that under duress when you are multi-tasking, in a bad mood, under things where your brain doesn't have the capacities it normally would have, those are situations where your automatic associations could influence your behavior. i want to go back to what the detective said. everything he said in the last comment was exactly right. it's not just about the split second decision. when we talk about use of deadly force we are frequently talking about a deadly decision. we shouldn't be. there are a number of tactical decisions officer are make before they get to that moment and you can deescalate on your own biases. it can save a life and save an

off officer's career. >> thank you. it's complicated times. tom costello takes a look at the robot with a bomb. when it comes to healthcare,

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>> up next, what we are learning about the gunman and five officers killed in last week's sho shooting. and as president obama returns some accuse him of deeping the

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pretty morning. good morning. it's monday, july 11th. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset we have the host reverend al sharpton. he did watch soccer, right? >> i watched joe tell me what's going on. >> that was your relaxation. >> yes. >> msnbc political analyst school of public policy harold

ford jr. mark halprin. >> the circus returns. >> yeah. we'll have to show some -- are we showing some of that this morning? >> i wouldn't know. >> let's regroup and make that happen. >> congratulations. wedding season. mike collin's son got married. he tried to do that to me and broke my back. mike barnacle and -- >> collin and jackie. >> and there is phil griffin and luke russert. it was a -- >> it was a nice break from all of the -- >> it was a very nice break.

mike gave such beautiful beautiful speech. he brought his seven children up and talked about how you have to let them go. you raise kids to let them go but as you know, reverend, you never let them go. >> even though theyet you go you never let them go. >> that's something you'll learn. >> i'm looking forward to it. >> congratulations, mike. >> so mike does have the day off today but he should be back tomorrow you would think. president obama cut short his trip to the nato summit in europe and will travel to give remarks at an inner faith memorial. it is for a service for five police officers killed in thursday night's ambush. for the latest into the attack

let's bring in chris jansing live in dallas. rnc rnc >> reporter: over the weekend the fbi was busy at the crime scene. they were steps apart searching for evidence. police now say bomb-making materials and journals show he had actually been practicing detonations. he actually had enough material do far more damage. on the walls of the parking garage where the stand off ended they found these initials, rb written in blood. police are trying to figure out what that means. while investigators haven't ruled out if others were involved they did say the sophistication is unusual for

most criminal suspects. >> because it was such a spontaneous decision to march we had to leapfrog intersections to make sure they didn't get run over by a veechlhicle. we had to block intersections which did expose officers to this attack. the suspect took advantage of that. once he was in a position officers did not know where the shots were coming from. we are learning some of the positions of our deceased officers. they were in a funnel. it ended up being a fatal funnel. the suspect continued to move and shoot from different angles almost trianglating. >> the chief talked about how he was laughing and mocking the officers. he also requested a black police negotiator as the night wore on.

in the stand off after his initial press briefing he was presented with a novel idea, using a found of c4 explosives to end it. >> we me gaucnegotiated, singin asking how many did he get and he wanted to kill some more. there was no progress on the negotiation. >> reporter: police believe the incidents in louisiana and minnesota expedited johnson's plans on police. some of the streets here will reopen today. that part of the investigation will be closing. some businesses and county offices will reopen. i will say it will be anything

but business as usual. >> thank you. we'll be checking with you throughout to morning. the thing that i noticed on these type of issues, he can never win. after minneapolis and baton rouge a lot of people didn't think he went strong enough. you read editorials. some southerly and some not to subt subtly. he has for some time tried to strike the right tone, tried to explain how police officers are thrown into positions like social workers in the worst parts of america. they are not trained for that task. it's not fair that we give them that task. no matter what the president says he gets attacked from both

sides. >> that's because there are five to ten around this from carry laws. we'll get to that at some point. the justice system, it's not just black and white. you know, tension between black and white, there's a lot of problems that are broken. >> absolutely. i think part of what we wrestled with all weekend, i have been on countless conference calls with national civil rights groups, people that are on the ground. >> and the families themselves. >> yes. he was on politics nation yesterday. the problem is many of the protesters come from our organizations. many of them are white. we say black lives matter. it is more of a statement than an organized group. we just act like -- many of them

are white. many are sympathizing but many have other issues. many of the policemen are black. so everyone wants to make this so easily fitting in a certain cat gor. in that the president has the deal. we are to deal with it as a much more complex. in my opinion it is a lot more complicated. >> that's such a great point. the day after the dallas shootings, you're saying what you've saying right now, it's not that complicated. the judge that started protest is a black judge. it is not a black and wlielt issue. >> it is a race issue not a black and white.

>> absolutely. i believe the police officer was hispan hispanic. >> hispanic and asian. so it is a race issue and it is a policing issue. it is not simply a white and black thing nims. >> and one of the things we would ask is one hour you have a lot protesting, call for justice but if you're working with families who want justice, they are not agrabl. i only raised that to say the president has a responsibility and how enforcement. imagine what he has to deal with. it is amazing to beat down on

what he douf, would have, should have done. he has to keel with the facts that i theed no make this work. >> and if you go too aggressively on one said you'll the roar. protests don'ted in various cities over the police involved shooting deaths. last night many memphis black lives demonstrators tied up traffic much of the night. in baton rouge 48 arrests so far as police clashed with protesters. on saturday 100 people were taken into custody, furious over the death of alton steriling whose shooting was capture ond

video. mckesson tweeted one day ago, we saw police abuse their power and intentionally provoke protesters in order to create and exploit conflekt. they say some one from the crowd. in st. paul, minnesota protesters swarmed onto i-95. more than 100 people were deflected. what a one officer had a concrete block dropped on his head and suffered a broken vert bray. >> . >> i want you to see the impact

of a rock like this and that gets thrown from a bridge and hits one of our offers with enough force to bend a piece of s solid. >> i am absolutely disgusted by the acts of some, not all, but some. >> and harold ford, that's what he said. he said any violence against law enforcement officers is unacceptable and it is a crime and they will be per cuted to the full extent of the law tlchlt w. there was no violence. it is shutting down the bridge. the police recognize the outrage and community and concern and hopefully a bigger don vconvers

will happen there. it was an african american woman shot in the leg and being released in the hospital. >> another four. >> another four. >> and she thanked the police officers. >> and they saved their life. >> we had rightly so talked about training and lack there after and how you deal with communities and situations as some of these incidents have shown. police officers are confronted with the kind of challenge they face there with every day citizens are threatthreatened. i saw a few politicians we make over the weekend about that matter. the bigger issue, they should be kpa thanked. i listened to that woman thank those officers on behalf of her

family was a striking contrast with some of the things we have seen. >> said while police officers were being shot down this police officer ran after her. >> a lot of the -- >> right. she covered her -- >> so let's take a look at the president speaking in year euroyu euro europe. >> when we are concerned about fairness in the criminal justice system attack police officers you are doing a disservice. i is a rep henceable crime and needs to be prosecuted. in a movement like blook lives

matter there will be or are overgeneral ieds or are harsh. i don't think you can hold well meaning activists who are peace tli protesting reresponsibleable frm everything uttered at a protest nagt. >> i firmly mooef they are not as divided adds some have suggested. americans of all races and all backgrounds are outraged by the inexcusable attacks on police. >> so the flil reaction we hear from the -- political reaction we hear from the president --

>> well, donald trump had a pretty good instabram. shows a 39 k style statement. it surprised enough a lot of people. >> it requires leadership that is emotional and intellectual. you look at what paul ryan said, 80 bank accou 80% or more of what they said was all the same. that's where the president's cold him. he is an international call. still ahead on "morning joe," the buzz is building over who dn nald jump will mike allen

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trump's decision on a running mate could come any day now. trump did not hold any meetings this weekend, instead meeting with staff and spending time with family. he returned to the campaign trail in virginia with chris christie by his side who is

being vetted by the campaign. meetings with mike pence who is formally under consideration. indiana delegate says pence has a 95% chance of being the pick. do you think that's true ma mark halprin? >> 95% seems high. >> mike pence. > . >> and word that trump is considering michael flynn. >> abortion -- and these are difficult issues but i think women have to be able to choose -- that's sort after a right of choice but it's a difficult legal decision and i think women are so important in that decision-making process.

>> republican delegates are looking to make the vice presidential choice themselves. is mike pence ahead in this thing? >> he is a nice guy. >> no. i mean who -- we didn't even hear newt. >> it is impossible for us to say who it is because i don't think donald trump knows. we have seen him where there seems like a lot of good choices and you start going one by one and it's like everybody has flaws. there's a lot of god choices. he is asking people all of the time. he knows a bad pick -- here is his bad pick. >> i think pence might actually be the best pick. i can tell you why not to pick

mike pence but you need somebody who everybody will say this is a responsible dhochoice. >> does he have foreign policy? >> his resume is similar to kasich. >> what do you think? what is his best pick? >> far for me to give him advice but someone in the military would be more openful. >> he is someone who will help shoufr up mail tear experience. i think you need you will mobilize a lot of the lgbt communities they were the state

that really took it on. you got that but it's really becoming to mr. trump that he has to say this is serious business. this is not just me doing what i do. i am very interested that given this climate we are in that we know what happened what kind of president he and mr. clinton are going to do but what kind of attorney general -- >> well -- >> it is before the indictment. >> please, al -- >> i said we are tight. i'm not talking about who. i think it is a very critical role. >> absolutely. >> i would like to see mr. trump's idea. >> do you think it could be chris christie? >> i don't know that. we should compare his record.

>> who do you think will be the best presidential pick, joe? >> you never know how somebody will act in the national stage. it is hard to get out there if you're a dumb guy. same thing with the general. i would warn everybody away because you look at what happened with clark the next couple of days. >> i was in that race. >> yeah. >> you have gingrich all over the place and a guy who finished rubio's campaign. >> i think you need a foreign policy. >> yes. but first he is not going to

embarrass you. chances are good he will the other side. oh, my god. that is wishful thinking. you all stop it. >> i think picking a person is too big of a risk. one of britain's top members of parliment is with us. stay with us after his exit from the x chamber. stay tuned. i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget.

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>> the prime minister of the country is here. you know, i think i certainly wouldn't like to be a prime minister. it is an impossible job. gl that is him knowledging david cameron. back live we have mark mckenon and eddy junior.

a very bleak month but not so when it came to wimbledon. >> some sporting success. it is some economic success as well. >> i was going to say, there were a lot of people suggesting brexit would be the end of the world. s and prkts h s&p had one of the best months ever. >> i was campaigning far different outcome. you take it adds f an instructi to deliver. we are not turning in on ourselves we are not facing out to the world. we are certainly not leaving. global free markets, free trade. >> is that a decision you have

accepted now? >> absolutely. >> you're at peace with it. the people have spoken and let's figure out how to move forward. >> that's absolutely the way forward. you can't take the east german view. we need to elect a new people. >> right. >> we are strong democracies and when the people speak the poll tigtss need to take this. why? >> i think people have misunderstood fwoboth the hostiy but also a sense that economic growth was not reaching all parts of the country and we have to turn that around. we have to make people feel they have a connection to the success of business in our economy. it is a big challenge for our political system. >> i have spoke to a family that were labor supporters in

manchester and were surprised when i asked how were you voting. voting to leave. despite being labor they said listen, we feel like we are done our duty to the world when it comes for eliminations. i said, wow, if a labor family from north ern england is sighing that what view would it be? >> across the format tril areas! but do you understand that concern. the issue in britain was who was in charge of who was coming into

the country and it was -- >> right. >> and if we left we would have more control. what i'm keen is we made the decision to leave but we are going to make a decision about what kind of country we want to be. i don't want us to be when we become more tolerant and more divided. i want us to interpret the result to be more outward facing, to have stronger economic and trade ties so that the prosperity and leads. >> but last don makes can decision. >> i think america is the place we look first as our closest friend and ally to start talks about economic and trade ties. i was speaking to speaker ryan on saturday. got secretary lowell coming.

i think we can begin to dem state more outward fasing by starting the strong lacing. >> and you can do yun rat p ral adding to other places in athan so look, got make sure they are in the economy. we have to do a lot of business tonight tlchlt were very good u.s. firms and points of people hit. >> so it can't about economic

pollties the we might charact characterize. >> what the it mean? so say we have -- it has in some way ieken to photoout from under there. gl amming, cut becomes to it is to lep left you know, we can't afford communities to be left behind and let the well tear system fill in the graps

and herrens are approving fwity he this bp. so now she is can overwhelming tours. i hsz the teal, determination to do the notary public i think now inst next too days cosew z -- >> all right. thaj y thaj y thank you so much.

and the threat was ended. experts say it was unprecedented. we have a lot of questions around the table. tom costello will give us a closer look at the way police put an end to the stand off when we return. and when millions couldn't get health care, this first lady worked with republicans and democrats to fix it. creating the children's health insurance program, so that every child gets the health care that child deserves to have. now eight million kids are covered. that's the kind of leader she is. and the kind of president she'll be. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message.

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♪ when it's go book on choicehotels.com for instant rewards like gift cards, plus savings of up to 20%. book direct at choicehotels.com . law enforcement officers say it's the first time to use a bomb to take out a suspect. let's bring in tom costello. he skbrojoins us from washingto. a lot of questions here on why the police felt the need and the urgency instead of staying in hostage negotiations and finding more out about this suspect. >> yeah. by and large i'll tell you the dallas pd is being aplouded for

using innovating tactics to put an ending to the killing. it is the latest example of law enforcement turning to military tactics and whether it comes to a more heavily armed society. the decision facing dallas police was life or death. micah johnson had already killed five police officers, wounded 14 people and warning that he planted bombs throughout the area. with sharp shooters unable to get a clean shot at the suspect they came up with a plan. >> to impro vise our roy bot to detonate bethiend corner within a few feet of where --

>> ramming holes in the orlando nightclub trying to remove hostages and removing sus pipics clothing. the bomb squad is run by the fire department with a small freet cooked with camera, niek phonens and root. so intet of doing that -- >> many beefed u7 their fire power. many showed up with semi automatic weapons. now for the first time using a remotely controlled roy bot. >> i think should be very careful mow they use these kinds of technology. it is probably the biggest

problem here. >> they say you can't second guess the dallas pd. all of these crisises facing them possibly about more bombs it was a right decision on that unique day. >> dallas chief brown. >> i have former s.w.a.t. experience here in dallas. you have to trust the people to make the calms to save their lives. it's not these critics lives. >> nypd official says there needs to be a public discussion before robot bombs become a more widely used tactic. >> thank you. we always appreciate you joining us. i have braking news i just aim across. michael smith rkt snork doe doe

planning in the fight against yesterday this morning in iraq since 2010/2011. coming up they had mike wall -- and. we are next with a big come and reub lu dan sand ton sngs it --

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yesterday mike allen sent out his final edition of the play book. the man really did change so much over the past seven or eight years. with us now t two taking over the reig, greg sherman and anna palmer. very exciting day. >> yes, sir. >> must be sort of a nerve racking day. >> yes. >> so tell us about it. what should we expect coming forward? >> we really want to break fluz

eve news every day. we broke news on paul ryan and that he is actually going to speak at the convention. >> and i think what we try to do is what "morning joe" try to do, for those who are going into the 8:00 a.m. meeting. >> yes, the must-reads of the day. he has corn eszed that and broken news. that's the kind of stuff we want to do. >> so we had our foe oh, inability today. it has the same feel but no capabilities. >> yes. >> so let's talk about this. he is not going to be seen from the vict

the hymn book. >> he is crafting his own age a agenda. it is the opposite of what paul ryan is doing. he is going to go at 9:00 and talk about his agenda, not donald trump's agenda. >> it wouldn't be that much different when no body talked about mitt romney. they talked about themtselves. >> and what's unclear at this point is what is going to be the republican platform. where is the unified? >> things have started this so much since mike start third-degree ten years ago. >> we are blessed to have this that has been getting up and getting that information. the news cycle has changed. embargoes don't hold like they use to. there is the era of twitter and things like that. we are trying to modernize it as

well. >> i will say no one else in the space. mike has been a jugger knot. all we have to do is keep it up for the next 3,000 editions. >> and again, that's something else you shared with us. people do morning shows. there's no by di aels in foreign policy. >> it keeps it pretty simple. finally you have details on the final memorial service. >> and nancy pelosi will be flying in air force one and will be there as well. >> and both president bush and president obama will both speak at this event which is kind of an unspushl skblchlt and i was thinking of whether he spoke out

since his issue. >> i can't remember! i can't either. >> congratulations. we hope you come back a lot. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." or across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait. ♪

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been i firmly believe that america is not as divided as some have suggested americans of all races and all backgrounds are rightly outraged by the inexcusable attacks on police whether it's in dallas or any place else. >> it's time to talk about what we learned today. eddy. you look verified, my man. >> the one thing i want us to remember is these aren't abstractio abstractions. these aren't race relations. that he has are real people who love each other. real people worry about their futures. we won't trade in assumptions. >> who were suffering. as gingrich says black people in

new york normal-life prayer they can't even. zwl i'm glad to see they are testify together tomorrow in dallas. >> i learned from you it may be the first time president bush has spoken publicly since he left the white house on an issue like is. >> it would suggest how important a moment this is. >> all right. thank you for being here. thank you for watching. stick around. the news continues throughout the day with stephanie picking up coverage right now. good morning. i'm stephanie. breaking overnight massive protests across the country over police shootings.

he seemed very determined about hurting more officers. >> what his private journals reveal and the cryptic message he wrote out in his own blood. and the fallen, the mother and sister of one of the police officers killed speak out in an emotional interview. >> a wonderful human being, wonderful. everybody loved him. >> he was the man of my life. >> how they are remembering their personal hero. we have got to begin today with those protests in city of city across the country. thousands of people venting anger over recent police-involved shootings while police have their own fears of being targeted. sunday arreste